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	<title>Comments for Paul's Weblog</title>
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	<link>http://paulseiler.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>Thoughts on work (for now)</description>
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		<title>Comment on Ministry announces selected LMS development partners by leighblackall</title>
		<link>http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/2009/02/16/ministry-announces-selected-lms-development-partners/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>leighblackall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/?p=33#comment-10</guid>
		<description>http://flickr.com/photos/leighblackall/sets/1733041/show/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://flickr.com/photos/leighblackall/sets/1733041/show/" rel="nofollow">http://flickr.com/photos/leighblackall/sets/1733041/show/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Ministry announces selected LMS development partners by Ray Tolley</title>
		<link>http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/2009/02/16/ministry-announces-selected-lms-development-partners/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Tolley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/?p=33#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Hi, Paul

I noticed your response on Jamin&#039;s work.  I, too have been involved in research into VLEs in the UK for several years now. - I started by installing single-room networks way back in 1982 and haven&#039;t looked back since!

BTW - I use the term VLE in terms of remote or virtual access as opposed to an MLE which could be an internal learning platform with MIS.

You might be interested in my short report, now somewhat dated, at:
www.maximise-ict.co.uk/VLEs_Bill_Tagg_Report.pdf 

However, whilst producing that report I came to understand something of the total confusion concerning e-Portfolios both in the UK and US.

I strongly warn against the thinking that the e-Portfolio can be embedded within a school&#039;s VLE.  From my studies into interoperability I do not think that an e-Portfolio will ever export/import perfecty and intact.  -  So what is the point of a student of say 7 yrs old having to rebuild their e-Portfolio? Or an adult worker changing jobs etc?  I address this issue of transition in my blog:
http://efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/2009/02/when-do-we-start-with-e-portfolio.html 

I agree with you completely on the point of teachers and back-end involvement.  All my work over the last 46 years has been about &lt;i&gt;&quot;How can I make your job easier and more enjoyable?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;  I therefore see no reason to create an e-Portfolio system that adds to the workload of teachers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Paul</p>
<p>I noticed your response on Jamin&#8217;s work.  I, too have been involved in research into VLEs in the UK for several years now. &#8211; I started by installing single-room networks way back in 1982 and haven&#8217;t looked back since!</p>
<p>BTW &#8211; I use the term VLE in terms of remote or virtual access as opposed to an MLE which could be an internal learning platform with MIS.</p>
<p>You might be interested in my short report, now somewhat dated, at:<br />
<a href="http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/VLEs_Bill_Tagg_Report.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/VLEs_Bill_Tagg_Report.pdf</a> </p>
<p>However, whilst producing that report I came to understand something of the total confusion concerning e-Portfolios both in the UK and US.</p>
<p>I strongly warn against the thinking that the e-Portfolio can be embedded within a school&#8217;s VLE.  From my studies into interoperability I do not think that an e-Portfolio will ever export/import perfecty and intact.  &#8211;  So what is the point of a student of say 7 yrs old having to rebuild their e-Portfolio? Or an adult worker changing jobs etc?  I address this issue of transition in my blog:<br />
<a href="http://efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/2009/02/when-do-we-start-with-e-portfolio.html" rel="nofollow">http://efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/2009/02/when-do-we-start-with-e-portfolio.html</a> </p>
<p>I agree with you completely on the point of teachers and back-end involvement.  All my work over the last 46 years has been about <i>&#8220;How can I make your job easier and more enjoyable?&#8221;</i>  I therefore see no reason to create an e-Portfolio system that adds to the workload of teachers!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Million dollar question: How many LMS are enough? by paulseiler</title>
		<link>http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/2008/11/07/million-dollar-question-how-many-lms-are-enough/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>paulseiler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 07:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/?p=26#comment-8</guid>
		<description>I agree with you that the needs of schools must be well served, which is why for this important decision my team formed a principals&#039; reference group and travelled to hear the views of school staff. All the activites of the SMS team are aimed to support schools and ensure thing work as well as possible for them. 

The NZ school system in which we both work is based on a premise that school can and do make good decisions. The Ministry’s role is often to provide to schools good information, sometimes to provide funding subsidies, to develop standards and specifications, to mediate in disputes between schools and vendors, and to inform/educate school staff so even better outcomes can be made.

No decision process, whether run by 2500 schools individually with Ministry support or by the Ministry on behalf of all these schools can produce results that all school arer always happy with. 

School satisfaction in jurisdictions where there is one system selected is no higher than here and introduces many other issues. In fact, officials in some of those areas wish they were permitted to take the sort of calculated risks that schools have allowed the SMS team to take. A standard tender and monopoly supply decision might be the safer option?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you that the needs of schools must be well served, which is why for this important decision my team formed a principals&#8217; reference group and travelled to hear the views of school staff. All the activites of the SMS team are aimed to support schools and ensure thing work as well as possible for them. </p>
<p>The NZ school system in which we both work is based on a premise that school can and do make good decisions. The Ministry’s role is often to provide to schools good information, sometimes to provide funding subsidies, to develop standards and specifications, to mediate in disputes between schools and vendors, and to inform/educate school staff so even better outcomes can be made.</p>
<p>No decision process, whether run by 2500 schools individually with Ministry support or by the Ministry on behalf of all these schools can produce results that all school arer always happy with. </p>
<p>School satisfaction in jurisdictions where there is one system selected is no higher than here and introduces many other issues. In fact, officials in some of those areas wish they were permitted to take the sort of calculated risks that schools have allowed the SMS team to take. A standard tender and monopoly supply decision might be the safer option?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Million dollar question: How many LMS are enough? by Patrick Dunford</title>
		<link>http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/2008/11/07/million-dollar-question-how-many-lms-are-enough/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Dunford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/?p=26#comment-7</guid>
		<description>The real question is whether this approach best serves the needs of schools. Using the SMS as an example, given that the Ministry requires all schools to collect the data and strongly encourages them to install an SMS, would not this requirement best be served by the Ministry providing a standardised SMS system to schools as is done in other countries (and states, e.g. Australia)

Therefore the LMS approach appears destined to produce the same kind of difficulties that some schools are experiencing in an SMS, relying largely on the vendor and word of mouth, and putting all of the risk onto Boards to make the informed decision while the Ministry practices a risk-averse approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real question is whether this approach best serves the needs of schools. Using the SMS as an example, given that the Ministry requires all schools to collect the data and strongly encourages them to install an SMS, would not this requirement best be served by the Ministry providing a standardised SMS system to schools as is done in other countries (and states, e.g. Australia)</p>
<p>Therefore the LMS approach appears destined to produce the same kind of difficulties that some schools are experiencing in an SMS, relying largely on the vendor and word of mouth, and putting all of the risk onto Boards to make the informed decision while the Ministry practices a risk-averse approach.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Have to start somewhere, some time by David Deacon</title>
		<link>http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/2008/10/12/have-to-start-somewhere-some-time/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>David Deacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/?p=3#comment-6</guid>
		<description>Knowing you as someone who thinks as well as does,  I look forward to following your thoughts and contributing if / when I can add some value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Knowing you as someone who thinks as well as does,  I look forward to following your thoughts and contributing if / when I can add some value.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Million dollar question: How many LMS are enough? by paulseiler</title>
		<link>http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/2008/11/07/million-dollar-question-how-many-lms-are-enough/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>paulseiler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/?p=26#comment-5</guid>
		<description>A good point, Mark. I (and the reference group) \agree with you on the &#039;dated&#039; nature of LMS as traditionally used and where the transformational value is. We also realise that the approach to using tools must be sustainable from a workload and cost perspective and therefore see that the role of the LMS will change over time to be the ‘washing line’ on which other services/modules/applications hang. As such, the tender starts with a description of an LMS as it is currently know but seeks to evolve these tools to be a &#039;hub&#039; around which collaborative tools (the transformational ones) can galvanise. This is shown in the diagram and the reason for the focus on modularity, interoperability and openness.

There are a number of reasons for this approach:
- starting with the familiar and building on this has a lower risk profile;
- desire to make the activities manageable for teachers, where interaction is normally with a &#039;class sized&#039; group;
- a store for data required to launch software supported learning activities (e.g. class/group membership, demographics, etc) that is entered once into the SMS and then slaved to the LMS; and
- focus on schools as an organisation being responsible to support the education needs of many individuals

It might be that a different term is required for LMS as they become this (c.f. a course structuring tool), so open to suggestions on what this might be. I am currently at the IDEA conference in Melbourne and right across Australia the same trend is evident.

Once through the tender process I am keen to open up the online space of the reference group to others and try to seed a wider participation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good point, Mark. I (and the reference group) \agree with you on the &#8216;dated&#8217; nature of LMS as traditionally used and where the transformational value is. We also realise that the approach to using tools must be sustainable from a workload and cost perspective and therefore see that the role of the LMS will change over time to be the ‘washing line’ on which other services/modules/applications hang. As such, the tender starts with a description of an LMS as it is currently know but seeks to evolve these tools to be a &#8216;hub&#8217; around which collaborative tools (the transformational ones) can galvanise. This is shown in the diagram and the reason for the focus on modularity, interoperability and openness.</p>
<p>There are a number of reasons for this approach:<br />
- starting with the familiar and building on this has a lower risk profile;<br />
- desire to make the activities manageable for teachers, where interaction is normally with a &#8216;class sized&#8217; group;<br />
- a store for data required to launch software supported learning activities (e.g. class/group membership, demographics, etc) that is entered once into the SMS and then slaved to the LMS; and<br />
- focus on schools as an organisation being responsible to support the education needs of many individuals</p>
<p>It might be that a different term is required for LMS as they become this (c.f. a course structuring tool), so open to suggestions on what this might be. I am currently at the IDEA conference in Melbourne and right across Australia the same trend is evident.</p>
<p>Once through the tender process I am keen to open up the online space of the reference group to others and try to seed a wider participation.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Million dollar question: How many LMS are enough? by Mark Lamont</title>
		<link>http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/2008/11/07/million-dollar-question-how-many-lms-are-enough/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Lamont</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/?p=26#comment-4</guid>
		<description>Zero could be the answer to your question. Internationally, I see school systems showing better gains (in terms of students on-task measures, utilisation and transformation of learning and teaching measures) from implementing &#039;safe containers&#039; into which learners and teachers can drop their Web 2 collaborative learning tools. ePortfolio environments for student co-construction are more important for the development of 21st Century learning skills than are traditional LMS&#039;s that automate a 19th Century process of teachers pushing information to students, turning teachers into over-burdened quasi-Webmasters. Thought leaders abroad are not pushing LMS&#039;s, they are pushing collaboration tools and approaches to systemic changes that leverage the transformational, not just automation, of learning. SMS is about efficiency, learning environments are more about transformation and relevance to students in the digital age. Social learning/Web 2.0 tools come naturally to students (and many teachers), LMS&#039;s do not necessarily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zero could be the answer to your question. Internationally, I see school systems showing better gains (in terms of students on-task measures, utilisation and transformation of learning and teaching measures) from implementing &#8217;safe containers&#8217; into which learners and teachers can drop their Web 2 collaborative learning tools. ePortfolio environments for student co-construction are more important for the development of 21st Century learning skills than are traditional LMS&#8217;s that automate a 19th Century process of teachers pushing information to students, turning teachers into over-burdened quasi-Webmasters. Thought leaders abroad are not pushing LMS&#8217;s, they are pushing collaboration tools and approaches to systemic changes that leverage the transformational, not just automation, of learning. SMS is about efficiency, learning environments are more about transformation and relevance to students in the digital age. Social learning/Web 2.0 tools come naturally to students (and many teachers), LMS&#8217;s do not necessarily.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The beginnings of a national education network by paulseiler</title>
		<link>http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/the-beginnings-of-a-national-education-network/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>paulseiler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/?p=16#comment-3</guid>
		<description>Donald, the concept maturity/time to market is a valuable insight, thanks. Given that the aim is to give school useful services/content to access, having it up and going is important.

As for the portfolio, I guess schools will always be able to make the use/not use decision. With the small number of consumers currently on NEN it is crucial to select the highest value providers early on, both the get some custom from the existing school client base to hopefully to attract new ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donald, the concept maturity/time to market is a valuable insight, thanks. Given that the aim is to give school useful services/content to access, having it up and going is important.</p>
<p>As for the portfolio, I guess schools will always be able to make the use/not use decision. With the small number of consumers currently on NEN it is crucial to select the highest value providers early on, both the get some custom from the existing school client base to hopefully to attract new ones.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The beginnings of a national education network by Donald</title>
		<link>http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/the-beginnings-of-a-national-education-network/#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 07:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseiler.wordpress.com/?p=16#comment-2</guid>
		<description>Nice post paul - I will refrain from commenting in detail given my interests....

It may be worth assessing any responses on a concept maturity / time-to-market vector.  We could get lots of great ideas, but the ability of schools to actually pick them up is important.  A portfolio approach?

DC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post paul &#8211; I will refrain from commenting in detail given my interests&#8230;.</p>
<p>It may be worth assessing any responses on a concept maturity / time-to-market vector.  We could get lots of great ideas, but the ability of schools to actually pick them up is important.  A portfolio approach?</p>
<p>DC</p>
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